Atheism
Claims that come up in conversation about Atheism, with a short answer and the texts to open.
God
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What you will hear
God does not exist, or the public evidence does not justify believing that God exists.
Christians say God is the one on whom everything that exists depends. Romans 1:20 says what may be known of God is seen through what has been made.
- Romans 1:20Romans 1:20 · King James Version
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20 · King James VersionOpen source - Psalm 19:1Psalms 19:1 · King James Version
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psalms 19:1 · King James VersionOpen source - American Atheists, What is an atheist?
- Romans 1:20Romans 1:20 · King James Version
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What you will hear
Atheism is only the lack of belief in gods. It is not a religion, and it is not the claim that no God exists.
American Atheists and Atheist Alliance International define it that way, and they also say some atheists do claim that no gods exist. Christians confess that Jesus is God.
- American Atheists, What is an atheist?
- Atheist Alliance International, What is atheism?
- John 1:1John 1:1 · King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 · King James VersionOpen source
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What you will hear
There are no good reasons to believe in gods, and suffering counts against the God Christians describe.
Atheist Alliance International says the reason is the lack of good reasons. Scripture already records the protest against suffering. Christians answer from what has been made, the cross, and the resurrection.
- Atheist Alliance International, What is atheism?
- Romans 1:20Romans 1:20 · King James Version
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:20 · King James VersionOpen source - Psalm 13
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What you will hear
If God created everything, someone had to create God.
Christians say God did not begin. Psalm 90:2 says from everlasting to everlasting he is God, and John 1:3 says all things were made by the Word.
- Psalm 90:2Psalms 90:2 · King James Version
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Psalms 90:2 · King James VersionOpen source - Isaiah 43:10Isaiah 43:10 · King James Version
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:10 · King James VersionOpen source - John 1:1–3John 1:1–3 · King James Version1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1–3 · King James VersionOpen source
- Psalm 90:2Psalms 90:2 · King James Version
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What you will hear
Antitheism is just another word for atheism.
Atheist organizations say atheism is the lack of belief in gods. The Stanford Encyclopedia says an antitheist, in one common use, hopes that no God exists, and that antitheism is not a variety of atheism. Jesus is God.
- John 1:1John 1:1 · King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 · King James VersionOpen source - Psalm 14:1Psalms 14:1 · King James Version
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalms 14:1 · King James VersionOpen source - Stanford Encyclopedia, Atheism and Agnosticism
- John 1:1John 1:1 · King James Version
Jesus and History
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What you will hear
The New Testament was written hundreds of years after Jesus, so it cannot be history.
Paul writes while people he names are still alive, Acts leaves Paul alive in Rome, and a fragment of John was copied in the second century. Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp already use the letters and the Gospel.
- 1 Corinthians 15:3–81 Corinthians 15:3–8 · King James Version15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
15:5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
15:6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
15:7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
15:8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:3–8 · King James VersionOpen source - Acts 28:30Acts 28:30 · King James Version
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Acts 28:30 · King James VersionOpen source - John Rylands Greek P 457
- 1 Corinthians 15:3–81 Corinthians 15:3–8 · King James Version15:3
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What you will hear
Jesus of Nazareth never existed. The Gospels are legends written long after the fact.
Paul names James the Lord’s brother, Tacitus reports an execution under Pilate, and Josephus mentions that same James. The open question is the resurrection, not the man.
- 1 Corinthians 15:3–41 Corinthians 15:3–4 · King James Version15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:3–4 · King James VersionOpen source - Galatians 1:19Galatians 1:19 · King James Version
But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.
Galatians 1:19 · King James VersionOpen source - Tacitus, Annals 15.44Tacitus, Annals 15.44 · Church and Brodribb, Perseus
Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome
Tacitus, Annals 15.44 · Church and Brodribb, PerseusOpen source
- 1 Corinthians 15:3–41 Corinthians 15:3–4 · King James Version15:3
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What you will hear
Matthew, Mark, and Luke are anonymous books, written too late to know who composed them.
The three do not open with the author’s name. Papias says Mark wrote Peter’s preaching, and that Matthew wrote the oracles in Hebrew. Irenaeus names Luke as Paul’s companion. The Muratorian fragment says Luke did not see the Lord in the flesh.
- Luke 1:1–4Luke 1:1–4 · King James Version1:1
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
1:2Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
1:3It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
1:4That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Luke 1:1–4 · King James VersionOpen source - Papias, in EusebiusPapias, in Eusebius, Church History 3.39.15 · Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, New Advent
Mark, having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately, though not in order, whatsoever he remembered of the things said or done by Christ. For he neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but afterward, as I said, he followed Peter, who adapted his teaching to the needs of his hearers, but with no intention of giving a connected account of the Lord's discourses, so that Mark committed no error while he thus wrote some things as he remembered them. For he was careful of one thing, not to omit any of the things which he had heard, and not to state any of them falsely.
Papias, in Eusebius, Church History 3.39.15 · Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, New AdventOpen source - Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New Advent
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New AdventOpen source
- Luke 1:1–4Luke 1:1–4 · King James Version1:1
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What you will hear
The Gospel of John is a late community product, not the work of the apostle.
John 21:24 says the beloved disciple wrote these things. Irenaeus names John, who leaned on Jesus’ breast, publishing at Ephesus. Eusebius infers a second John from Papias. The Manchester fragment of John is a second-century copy, not a signature.
- John 21:24John 21:24 · King James Version
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:24 · King James VersionOpen source - John 1:1John 1:1 · King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 · King James VersionOpen source - Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New Advent
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3.1.1 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New AdventOpen source
- John 21:24John 21:24 · King James Version
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What you will hear
Acts is an anonymous second volume, written to agree with Paul after the fact.
Acts 1:1 calls Luke’s Gospel the former treatise to Theophilus. The Muratorian fragment says Luke wrote Acts to Theophilus. The “we” passages are a companion traveling with Paul. Paul is the subject, not the author.
- Acts 1:1Acts 1:1 · King James Version
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Acts 1:1 · King James VersionOpen source - Luke 1:3Luke 1:3 · King James Version
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Luke 1:3 · King James VersionOpen source - Acts 16:10Acts 16:10 · King James Version
And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
Acts 16:10 · King James VersionOpen source
- Acts 1:1Acts 1:1 · King James Version
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What you will hear
Revelation was not written by the apostle John.
The book names John on Patmos. Justin says John, one of the apostles, received a revelation. Irenaeus places the vision near the end of Domitian’s reign. Dionysius accepts an inspired John and hesitates to call him the son of Zebedee.
- Revelation 1:9Revelation 1:9 · King James Version
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 1:9 · King James VersionOpen source - Justin, Dialogue 81Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 81 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New Advent
And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 81 · Ante-Nicene Fathers, New AdventOpen source - Dionysius, in EusebiusDionysius of Alexandria, in Eusebius, Church History 7.25.7 · Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, New Advent
Therefore that he was called John, and that this book is the work of one John, I do not deny. And I agree also that it is the work of a holy and inspired man. But I cannot readily admit that he was the apostle, the son of Zebedee, the brother of James, by whom the Gospel of John and the Catholic Epistle were written.
Dionysius of Alexandria, in Eusebius, Church History 7.25.7 · Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, New AdventOpen source
- Revelation 1:9Revelation 1:9 · King James Version
The Bible
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What you will hear
The Bible has been changed so many times that the text we have is not the original.
The Münster Liste counted 5,700 Greek New Testament entries on 29 September 2023, and called that figure a snapshot. Codex Sinaiticus is a fourth-century New Testament. The Dead Sea Scrolls include Hebrew copies a thousand years older than the medieval text, with variants counted.
- INTF, 29 September 2023Kurzgefasste Liste, 29 September 2023 · Katie Leggett and Greg Paulson, INTF
In closing, the current number of entries in the Kurzgefasste Liste, 5,700, is only a snapshot in time
Kurzgefasste Liste, 29 September 2023 · Katie Leggett and Greg Paulson, INTFOpen source - Codex SinaiticusCodex Sinaiticus: content · Codex Sinaiticus Project
Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament.
Codex Sinaiticus: content · Codex Sinaiticus ProjectOpen source - Dead Sea Scrolls introductionDead Sea Scrolls, biblical manuscripts · Israel Antiquities Authority
Among the Scrolls are partial or complete copies of every book in the Hebrew Bible (except the book of Esther).
Dead Sea Scrolls, biblical manuscripts · Israel Antiquities AuthorityOpen source
- INTF, 29 September 2023Kurzgefasste Liste, 29 September 2023 · Katie Leggett and Greg Paulson, INTF
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What you will hear
The Bible is a human book with no divine author, assembled late by unknown editors.
Second Timothy 3:16 says Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and the books and the early church name Moses, the prophets, the Gospel writers, and Paul. A human writer and a divine author are the Christian claim together.
- 2 Timothy 3:162 Timothy 3:16 · King James Version
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16 · King James VersionOpen source - 2 Peter 1:212 Peter 1:21 · King James Version
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:21 · King James VersionOpen source - Luke 24:44Luke 24:44 · King James Version
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:44 · King James VersionOpen source
- 2 Timothy 3:162 Timothy 3:16 · King James Version
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What you will hear
Moses did not write Genesis. The Torah is a late composite of sources.
Jesus says Moses wrote of him. Deuteronomy says Moses wrote this law. The documentary hypothesis explains doublets and style as later sources. No separate source manuscript has been found, and the Talmud already assigns the closing verses to Joshua.
- John 5:46John 5:46 · King James Version
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
John 5:46 · King James VersionOpen source - Deuteronomy 31:9Deuteronomy 31:9 · King James Version
And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
Deuteronomy 31:9 · King James VersionOpen source - Luke 24:44Luke 24:44 · King James Version
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:44 · King James VersionOpen source
- John 5:46John 5:46 · King James Version
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What you will hear
The Bible contradicts itself, so it cannot be trusted.
Judas, the census numbers, and Matthew’s naming of Jeremy are real differences in the wording. A contradiction is two claims that cannot both be true in the same way. The page shows the verses and does not invent a harmony they do not state.
- Matthew 27:5Matthew 27:5 · King James Version
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Matthew 27:5 · King James VersionOpen source - Acts 1:18Acts 1:18 · King James Version
Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Acts 1:18 · King James VersionOpen source - 2 Samuel 24:92 Samuel 24:9 · King James Version
And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
2 Samuel 24:9 · King James VersionOpen source - Matthew 27:9Matthew 27:9 · King James Version
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Matthew 27:9 · King James VersionOpen source
- Matthew 27:5Matthew 27:5 · King James Version
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What you will hear
The Bible teaches a flat earth, with corners, a firmament, and pillars.
Isaiah 40:22 says the circle of the earth, and Job 26:7 says God hangs the earth upon nothing. Four corners, a firmament, and pillars are also in the text. The church paragraphs fetched for the page do not teach a flat earth.
- Isaiah 40:22Isaiah 40:22 · King James Version
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 40:22 · King James VersionOpen source - Job 26:7Job 26:7 · King James Version
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7 · King James VersionOpen source - Revelation 7:1Revelation 7:1 · King James Version
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:1 · King James VersionOpen source
- Isaiah 40:22Isaiah 40:22 · King James Version
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What you will hear
The Bible is not true. It is religious fiction copied too late to trust.
Christians receive the books as inspired. Sinaiticus is a fourth-century New Testament, and the Dead Sea Scrolls include Hebrew copies a thousand years older than the medieval text, with variants counted. Jesus treats the law and the prophets as written about him. That is not a lab proof that God exists.
- 2 Timothy 3:162 Timothy 3:16 · King James Version
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16 · King James VersionOpen source - Luke 24:44Luke 24:44 · King James Version
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:44 · King James VersionOpen source - Codex SinaiticusCodex Sinaiticus: content · Codex Sinaiticus Project
Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament.
Codex Sinaiticus: content · Codex Sinaiticus ProjectOpen source
- 2 Timothy 3:162 Timothy 3:16 · King James Version