Article

Did Jesus Exist Before He Was Born?

The Church of God General Conference says Jesus came into existence at his conception. John 8:58, John 17:5, 1 Corinthians 10:4, and Hebrews 1:10 say the Son was already there.

Updated 2026-10-11 · Christianity

Author Paul Ambrose · GitHub

On This Page

καὶ kai And καί conjunction — “And” G2532 and, even, also, namely. This verse uses “and”. And

πάντες pantes all πᾶς (pas) adjective, nominative, plural, masculine — “all”, the subject form G3956 all, the whole, every kind of. This verse uses “all”. all

τὸ to the ὁ (ho) article, accusative, singular, neuter — “the”, the object form G3588 the, the definite article.

αὐτὸ auto same αὐτός (autos) adjective, accusative, singular, neuter — “same”, the object form G846 he, she, it, they, them, same. This verse uses “same”. the same

πνευματικὸν pneumatikon spiritual πνευματικός (pneumatikos) adjective, accusative, singular, neuter — “spiritual”, the object form G4152 spiritual. spiritual

ἔπιον epion they drank πίνω (pinō) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person plural — “they drank”, a single action G4095 I drink, imbibe. they drank

πόμα poma drink πόμα noun, accusative, singular, neuter — “drink”, the object form G4188 drink.

γὰρ gar for γάρ conjunction — “for” G1063 for.

ἐκ ek of ἐκ preposition — “of” G1537 from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. of

ἀκολουθούσης akolouthousēs that followed them ἀκολουθέω (akoloutheō) verb, present active participle, genitive, singular, feminine — “that followed them”, an ongoing or repeated action G190 I accompany, attend, follow. that followed them

πέτρας petras that Rock πέτρα (petra) noun, genitive, singular, feminine — “that Rock”, the of-form G4073 a rock, ledge, cliff, cave, stony ground. that Rock

δὲ de but δέ conjunction — “but” G1161 a weak adversative particle, generally placed second in its clause; but, on the other hand, and. This verse uses “but”.

ἦν ēn was εἰμί (eimi) verb, imperfect active indicative, 3rd person singular — “was”, an ongoing action in the past G1510 I am, exist. was

Χριστός christos Christ Χριστός noun, nominative, singular, masculine — “Christ”, the subject form G5547 anointed; the Messiah, the Christ. Christ

μηδὲ mēde Neither μηδέ conjunction — “Neither” G3366 and not, not even, neither...nor. Neither

ἐκπειράζωμεν ekpeirazōmen let us tempt ἐκπειράζω (ekpeirazō) verb, present active subjunctive, 1st person plural — “let us tempt”, an ongoing or repeated action G1598 I put to the test, make trial of, tempt, try. This verse uses “tempt”. let us tempt

καθώς kathōs as καθώς conjunction — “as” G2531 according to the manner in which, in the degree that, just as, as. as

τινες tines some τις (tis) interrogative or indefinite pronoun, nominative, plural, masculine — “some”, the subject form G5100 any one, some one, a certain one or thing. some

ἐπείρασαν epeirasan tempted πειράζω (peirazō) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person plural — “tempted”, a single action G3985 I try, tempt, test. tempted

ὑπὸ hupo of ὑπό preposition — “of” G5259 by, under, about. of

ὄφεων opheōn serpents ὄφις (ophis) noun, genitive, plural, masculine — “serpents”, the of-form G3789 a serpent, snake; used of the devil or Satan. serpents

ἀπώλλυντο apōllunto to destroy ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi) verb, imperfect passive indicative, 3rd person plural — “to destroy”, an ongoing action in the past G622 (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain). This verse uses “destroy”.

εἶπεν eipen to say λέγω (légō) Greek uses a different stem for this verb’s past forms. verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “to say”, a single action G3004 (denoting speech in progress), (a) I say, speak; I mean, mention, tell, (b) I call, name, especially in the pass., (c) I tell, command. This verse uses “say”. Strong’s files this form under G2036 (ἔπω, speak/say). said

Ἰησοῦς iēsous Jesus Ἰησοῦς noun, nominative, singular, masculine — “Jesus”, the subject form G2424 Jesus; the Greek form of Joshua; Jesus, son of Eliezer; Jesus, surnamed Justus.

Ἀμὴν amēn Verily ἀμήν particle — “Verily” G281 verily, truly, amen; at the end of sentences may be paraphrased by: So let it be. This verse uses “verily”. Verily

ὑμῖν humin unto you σύ (su) personal pronoun, dative, plural — “unto you”, the to- or for-form G4771 you. unto you

πρὶν prin Before πρίν conjunction — “Before” G4250 formerly, before. This verse uses “before”. Before

Ἀβραὰμ abraam Abraham Ἀβραάμ noun, accusative, singular, masculine — “Abraham”, the object form G11 Abraham, progenitor of the Hebrew race. Abraham

γενέσθαι genesthai to be γίνομαι (ginomai) verb, aorist middle infinitive — “to be”, a single action G1096 I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen. was

ἐγὼ egō I ἐγώ personal pronoun, nominative, singular — “I”, the subject form G1473 I, the first-person pronoun. I

νῦν nun now νῦν adverb — “now” G3568 adv. (a) of time: just now, even now; just at hand, immediately, (b) of logical connection: now then, (c) in commands and appeals: at this instant. This verse uses “now”. now

δόξασόν doxason glorify δοξάζω (doxazō) verb, aorist active imperative, 2nd person singular — “glorify”, a single action G1392 I glorify, honor, bestow glory on. This verse uses “glorify”. glorify

πάτερ pater father πατήρ (patēr) noun, vocative, singular, masculine — “father”, the calling form G3962 father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. This verse uses “father”.

παρὰ para with παρά preposition — “with” G3844 gen: from; dat: beside, in the presence of; acc: alongside of. with

σεαυτῷ seautō yourself σεαυτοῦ (seautoû) personal pronoun, dative, singular, masculine — “yourself”, the to- or for-form G4572 Strong’s files this form under G4771 (σύ). thine own self

δόξῃ doxē with the glory δόξα (doxa) noun, dative, singular, feminine — “with the glory”, the to- or for-form G1391 honor, renown; glory, an especially divine quality, the unspoken manifestation of God, splendor. with the glory

ᾗ hē which ὅς (hos) relative pronoun, dative, singular, feminine — “which”, the to- or for-form G3739 who, which, what, that. This verse uses “which”. which

εἶχον eichon I had ἔχω (echō) Greek uses a different stem for this verb’s past forms. verb, imperfect active indicative, 1st person singular — “I had”, an ongoing action in the past G2192 I have, hold, possess. I had

πρὸ pro before πρό preposition — “before” G4253 (a) of place: before, in front of, (b) of time: before, earlier than. before

κόσμον kosmon world κόσμος (kosmos) noun, accusative, singular, masculine — “world”, the object form G2889 the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment. the world

Ἐν en In ἐν preposition — “In” G1722 in, on, among. In

ἀρχῇ archē beginning ἀρχή noun, dative, singular, feminine — “beginning”, the to- or for-form G746 (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning. This verse uses “beginning”. the beginning

λόγος logos Word λόγος noun, nominative, singular, masculine — “Word”, the subject form G3056 a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy. the Word

πρὸς pros with πρός preposition — “with” G4314 to, towards, with. This verse uses “with”. with

θεόν theon God θεός (theos) noun, accusative, singular, masculine — “God”, the object form G2316 (a) God, (b) a god, generally. This verse uses “God”. God

σὰρξ sarx flesh σάρξ noun, nominative, singular, feminine — “flesh”, the subject form G4561 flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred. This verse uses “flesh”. flesh

ἐσκήνωσεν eskēnōsen dwelt σκηνόω (skēnoō) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “dwelt”, a single action G4637 I dwell as in a tent, encamp, have my tabernacle. dwelt

ἐθεασάμεθα etheasametha we beheld θεάομαι (theaomai) verb, aorist middle indicative, 1st person plural — “we beheld”, a single action G2300 I see, behold, contemplate, look upon, view; I see, visit. we beheld

ὡς hōs as ὡς conjunction — “as” G5613 as, like as, about, as it were, according as, how, when, while, as soon as, so that. as

μονογενοῦς monogenous of the only begotten μονογενής (monogenēs) adjective, genitive, singular, masculine — “of the only begotten”, the of-form G3439 only, only-begotten; unique. This verse uses “only”. of the only begotten

πλήρης plērēs ) full πλήρης adjective, nominative, singular, masculine — “) full”, the subject form G4134 full, abounding in, complete, completely occupied with. ) full

χάριτος charitos of grace χάρις (charis) noun, genitive, singular, feminine — “of grace”, the of-form G5485 (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness. This verse uses “grace”. of grace

ἀληθείας alētheias truth ἀλήθεια (alētheia) noun, genitive, singular, feminine — “truth”, the of-form G225 truth, but not merely truth as spoken; truth of idea, reality, sincerity, truth in the moral sphere, divine truth revealed to man, straightforwardness. truth

ταῦτα tauta These things οὗτος (houtos) demonstrative pronoun, accusative, plural, neuter — “These things”, the object form G3778 this; he, she, it. These things

Ἠσαΐας ēsaias Esaias Ἠσαΐας noun, nominative, singular, masculine — “Esaias”, the subject form G2268 Isaiah, the prophet. Esaias

ὅτι hoti when ὅτι conjunction — “when” G3754 that, since, because; may introduce direct discourse. when

εἶδεν eiden see ὁράω (horáō) Greek uses a different stem for this verb’s past forms. verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “see”, a single action G3708 I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware. This verse uses “see”. Strong’s files this form under G1492 (εἴδω, see/know). he saw

ἐλάλησεν elalēsen to speak λαλέω (laleō) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “to speak”, a single action G2980 (I talk, chatter in classical Greek, but in NT a more dignified word) I speak, say. This verse uses “speak”.

περὶ peri about περί preposition — “about” G4012 (a) gen: about, concerning, (b) acc: around. This verse uses “about”.

ὅτε hote when ὅτε conjunction — “when” G3753 when, at which time. when

κατ’ kat in κατά (kata) preposition — “in” G2596 gen: against, down from, throughout, by; acc: over against, among, daily, day-by-day, each day, according to, by way of. in

κύριε kurie lord κύριος (kurios) noun, vocative, singular, masculine — “lord”, the calling form G2962 lord, master, sir; the Lord. This verse uses “lord”.

γῆν gēn of the earth γῆ (gē) noun, accusative, singular, feminine — “of the earth”, the object form G1093 the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region. This verse uses “the earth”. of the earth

ἐθεμελίωσας ethemeliōsas to found θεμελιόω (themelioō) verb, aorist active indicative, 2nd person singular — “to found”, a single action G2311 I found, lay the foundation (lit. and met.). This verse uses “found”.

ἔργα erga works ἔργον (ergon) noun, nominative, plural, neuter — “works”, the subject form G2041 work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work. the works

χειρῶν cheirōn hands χείρ (cheir) noun, genitive, plural, feminine — “hands”, the of-form G5495 a hand. hands

οὐρανοί ouranoi heaven οὐρανός (ouranos) noun, nominative, plural, masculine — “heaven”, the subject form G3772 heaven, (a) the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, (b) the spiritual heavens.

γένεσις genesis origin γένεσις noun, nominative, singular, feminine — “origin”, the subject form G1078 birth, lineage, descent.

οὕτως houtōs on this wise οὕτω(ς) adverb — “on this wise” G3779 thus, so, in this manner. on this wise

μνηστευθείσης mnēsteutheisēs was espoused μνηστεύομαι (mnēsteuomai) verb, aorist passive participle, genitive, singular, feminine — “was espoused”, a single action G3423 I ask in marriage; pass: I am betrothed. was espoused

μητρὸς mētros mother μήτηρ (mētēr) noun, genitive, singular, feminine — “mother”, the of-form G3384 a mother.

Μαρίας marias Mary Μαρία (maria) noun, genitive, singular, feminine — “Mary”, the of-form G3137 Mary, Miriam, (a) the mother of Jesus, (b) of Magdala, (c) sister of Martha and Lazarus, (d) wife of Cleopas, (e) mother of John Mark, (f) a Christian woman in Rome. This verse uses “Mary”.

Ἰωσήφ iōsēph Joseph Ἰωσήφ noun, dative, singular, masculine — “Joseph”, the to- or for-form G2501 Joseph, a proper name.

ἢ ē or ἤ conjunction — “or” G2228 or, than.

συνελθεῖν sunelthein to came together συνέρχομαι (sunerchomai) Greek uses a different stem for this verb’s past forms. verb, aorist active infinitive — “to came together”, a single action G4905 I come or go with, accompany; I come together, assemble. came together

εὑρέθη heurethē she was found εὑρίσκω (heuriskō) verb, aorist passive indicative, 3rd person singular — “she was found”, a single action G2147 I find, learn, discover, especially after searching. she was found

γαστρὶ gastri belly γαστήρ (gastēr) noun, dative, singular, feminine — “belly”, the to- or for-form G1064 the womb, stomach; of a woman: to be with child (lit: to have [a child] in the belly).

πνεύματος pneumatos Ghost πνεῦμα (pneuma) noun, genitive, singular, neuter — “Ghost”, the of-form G4151 wind, breath, spirit. Ghost

ἁγίου hagiou holy ἅγιος (hagios) adjective, genitive, singular, neuter — “holy”, the of-form G40 set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred. This verse uses “holy”.

γέννησις gennēsis birth γέννησις noun, nominative, singular, feminine — “birth”, the subject form G1083 the birth

ἐπ’ ep in ἐπί (epi) preposition — “in” G1909 on, to, against, on the basis of, at. in

ἐσχάτου eschatou last ἔσχατος (eschatos) adjective, genitive, singular, neuter — “last”, the of-form G2078 last, at the last, finally, till the end. This verse uses “last”. last

ἡμερῶν hēmerōn days ἡμέρα (hēmera) noun, genitive, plural, feminine — “days”, the of-form G2250 a day, the period from sunrise to sunset. days

υἱῷ huiō his Son υἱός (huios) noun, dative, singular, masculine — “his Son”, the to- or for-form G5207 a son, descendent. his Son

ἔθηκεν ethēken he hath appointed τίθημι (tithēmi) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “he hath appointed”, a single action G5087 I put, place, lay, set, fix, establish. he hath appointed

κληρονόμον klēronomon heir κληρονόμος (klēronomos) noun, accusative, singular, masculine — “heir”, the object form G2818 an heir, an inheritor. heir

δι’ di by διά (dia) preposition — “by” G1223 (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of. by

ἐποίησεν epoiēsen he made ποιέω (poieō) verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd person singular — “he made”, a single action G4160 (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause. he made

αἰῶνας aiōnas worlds αἰών (aiōn) noun, accusative, plural, masculine — “worlds”, the object form G165 an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity. the worlds

Jesus existed before he was born in Bethlehem. John 8:58 John 8:58 · King James VersionJesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.John 8:58 · King James VersionOpen source has him say that before Abraham was, he is. John 17:5 John 17:5 · King James VersionAnd now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:5 · King James VersionOpen source has him ask for the glory he had with the Father before the world was. The Church of God General Conference says he came into existence at his conception. That sentence and these verses do not say the same thing.

Key Points

The Church of God General Conference says Jesus came into existence at his conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary. (1)
Christadelphians reject the doctrine that the Son of God was co-eternal with the Father. (2)
John 1:1 John 1:1 · King James VersionIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:1 · King James VersionOpen source says the Word was in the beginning with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 John 1:14 · King James VersionAnd the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.John 1:14 · King James VersionOpen source says the Word was made flesh.
1 Corinthians 10:4 1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionAnd did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionOpen source says the rock Israel drank from was Christ. Exodus 17:6 Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionBehold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionOpen source and Numbers 20:8 Numbers 20:8 · King James VersionTake the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.Numbers 20:8 · King James VersionOpen source are the water from the rock, centuries before Mary.
1 Corinthians 10:9 1 Corinthians 10:9 · King James VersionNeither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.1 Corinthians 10:9 · King James VersionOpen source on this site’s Greek says they tempted Christ, and some were destroyed by serpents. Numbers 21:6 Numbers 21:6 · King James VersionAnd the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.Numbers 21:6 · King James VersionOpen source is the LORD sending those serpents.
John 12:41 John 12:41 · King James VersionThese things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.John 12:41 · King James VersionOpen source says Isaiah saw his glory, after quoting Isaiah 6. Hebrews 1:10 Hebrews 1:10 · King James VersionAnd, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:Hebrews 1:10 · King James VersionOpen source addresses the Son with Psalm 102, the Lord who laid the foundation of the earth.
Philippians 2:6–7 Philippians 2:6–7 · King James Version^2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ^2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Philippians 2:6–7 · King James VersionOpen source says he was in the form of God and took the form of a servant. The taking is a step he took. It is not the start of his existence.

What These Churches Say

The Church of God General Conference’s statement on Jesus Christ says he is the sinless and only begotten Son of God, who came into existence at his conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary. The verses it lists include Matthew 1:18–23 and Luke 1:35. (1) Matthew 1:18 Matthew 1:18 · King James VersionNow the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.Matthew 1:18 · King James VersionOpen source says Mary was found with child of the Holy Ghost. That is the conception. The statement adds “came into existence,” which the verse does not say.

Christadelphians reject the doctrine that the Son of God was co-eternal with the Father. (2) Their statement of faith says he was begotten of Mary by the Holy Spirit. What Is Biblical Unitarianism? quotes both pages. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not teach this. They teach a Son who existed before Bethlehem as a spirit creature. Is Jesus Michael the Archangel? quotes that identification. The question on this page is the no-preexistence reading, not the archangel reading.

The Rock That Was Christ

Tap a word to see its meaning.

1 Corinthians 10:4 1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionAnd did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionOpen source says our fathers drank of that spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock was Christ. The Greek is ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός, “and the rock was the Christ.” The New World Translation (Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Bible) says that rock meant the Christ, and its note says the verb can mean “to signify.” (9) The verb on the page is ἦν, “was.”

The stories Paul is using are Exodus 17:6 Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionBehold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionOpen source, water from the rock at Horeb, and Numbers 20:8–11 Numbers 20:8–11 · King James Version^20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. ^20:9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. ^20:10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? ^20:11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.Numbers 20:8–11 · King James VersionOpen source, water from the rock at Kadesh. Those are two places, not one stone rolling behind the camp. Paul calls the rock spiritual, and he says it was Christ. He does not describe a geological event. Later Jewish writing also speaks of a well that went with Israel. This page does not quote a line from that writing. The sentence that is in the letter is that the rock was Christ, in the wilderness, before he was born of Mary.

They Tempted Christ

1 Corinthians 10:9 1 Corinthians 10:9 · King James VersionNeither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.1 Corinthians 10:9 · King James VersionOpen source on this site’s Greek is μηδὲ ἐκπειράζωμεν τὸν Χριστόν, “neither let us tempt Christ.” The King James Version also reads “Christ.” Scrivener 1894, Stephanus 1550, the Byzantine majority text, and the Greek Orthodox text read Χριστόν. Nestle 1904, Westcott and Hort 1881, and Tischendorf read κύριον, “the Lord.” The Textus Receptus notes on this site do not record a change of that noun. The New World Translation (Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Bible) reads “Neither let us put Jehovah to the test,” and the note points to Numbers 21:5–6 Numbers 21:5–6 · King James Version^21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. ^21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.Numbers 21:5–6 · King James VersionOpen source, where the people spoke against God and Moses and the LORD sent serpents. (9)

The wilderness story is about the LORD. Paul’s Greek, as printed here, names Christ as the one Israel tempted. That is a claim that the Son was the one they were dealing with in the desert. It is not a claim that a scribe inserted the divine name. The name Jehovah is not in this Greek sentence.

John

John 1:1–3 John 1:1–3 · King James Version^1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ^1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. ^1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 1:1–3 · King James VersionOpen source says in the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and all things were made by him. John 1:14 John 1:14 · King James VersionAnd the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.John 1:14 · King James VersionOpen source says the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The becoming flesh is Bethlehem. The being, in the beginning, is before it.

John 8:58 John 8:58 · King James VersionJesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.John 8:58 · King James VersionOpen source is Jesus’ answer to the Jews who say he is not yet fifty: before Abraham was, I am. John 17:5 John 17:5 · King James VersionAnd now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:5 · King James VersionOpen source is his prayer: glorify me with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. A plan in the Father’s mind is not “the glory which I had with thee.” The “I” is the Son, speaking of a glory he had.

John 12:37–41 John 12:37–41 · King James Version^12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: ^12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? ^12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, ^12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. ^12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.John 12:37–41 · King James VersionOpen source quotes Isaiah 53:1 Isaiah 53:1 · King James VersionWho hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?Isaiah 53:1 · King James VersionOpen source and Isaiah 6:10 Isaiah 6:10 · King James VersionMake the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.Isaiah 6:10 · King James VersionOpen source, and then says these things Isaiah said when he saw his glory and spoke of him. The “him” in John’s sentence is Jesus. Isaiah 6 is the prophet’s vision of the LORD, whose glory fills the earth. Old Testament Yahweh Texts Applied to Jesus puts that pair in the table.

Philippians and Hebrews

Philippians 2:6–7 Philippians 2:6–7 · King James Version^2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ^2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Philippians 2:6–7 · King James VersionOpen source says he was in the form of God, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. The form of God is where the sentence starts. The likeness of men is what he took. Hebrews 1:2 Hebrews 1:2 · King James VersionHath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hebrews 1:2 · King James VersionOpen source says God made the worlds by the Son. Hebrews 1:10–12 Hebrews 1:10–12 · King James Version^1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: ^1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; ^1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.Hebrews 1:10–12 · King James VersionOpen source then addresses the Son with the prayer of Psalm 102:25–27 Psalms 102:25–27 · King James Version^102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. ^102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: ^102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.Psalms 102:25–27 · King James VersionOpen source: thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth. A Son who lays the foundation in the beginning is not a Son who begins at Mary’s conception.

The Christian Claim

Jesus is God, and he became man. The conception in Matthew 1:18 Matthew 1:18 · King James VersionNow the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.Matthew 1:18 · King James VersionOpen source is the start of his human life, not the start of the Son. What Is the Incarnation? is that confession. The Trinity is the one God in whom the Son is eternal. The statements quoted at the top are a real reading of the birth narratives. They are not a reading of John 1, John 8, John 17, 1 Corinthians 10, or Hebrews 1.

Frequently Asked Questions

Does “The Rock Was Christ” Mean a Stone Was a Person?

Paul says the rock was spiritual, and that it was Christ. Exodus 17 and Numbers 20 are water given at two places. The letter’s claim is that Christ was the one they drank from, not that a boulder followed the column on foot.

Does John 8:58 Only Mean Jesus Was in God’s Plan?

The sentence is “Before Abraham was, I am.” John 17:5 John 17:5 · King James VersionAnd now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:5 · King James VersionOpen source says the glory was a glory he had with the Father. A plan does not have glory with the Father. The Son does.

Keep Reading

References

What We Believe, Statement of Faith, Jesus Christ (Church of God General Conference. Jesus came into existence at his conception by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary.)
Doctrines to Be Rejected, Item 3 (Christadelphians reject the doctrine that the Son of God was co-eternal with the Father.)
Gospel of John, 1:1–3; 8:58; 12:41; 17:5 John 1:1–3 · King James Version^1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ^1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. ^1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 1:1–3 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
First Letter to the Corinthians, 10:4; 10:9 1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionAnd did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1 Corinthians 10:4 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
Letter to the Philippians, 2:6–7 Philippians 2:6–7 · King James Version^2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ^2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Philippians 2:6–7 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
Letter to the Hebrews, 1:2; 1:10–12 Hebrews 1:2 · King James VersionHath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hebrews 1:2 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
Book of Exodus, 17:6 Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionBehold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.Exodus 17:6 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
Book of Numbers, 20:8–11; 21:6 Numbers 20:8–11 · King James Version^20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. ^20:9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. ^20:10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? ^20:11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.Numbers 20:8–11 · King James VersionOpen source. King James Version
New World Translation (Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Bible) of the Holy Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 10:4, 9 (2013 revision) (Study Edition. The rock meant the Christ. Verse 9 reads Jehovah, where the Greek on this site reads Christ.)